The glandular boss maybe be a good point to id Viking.I checked my 23 plants Viking which collected from 2002-2006, yes, the g.b. are found from all plants and not found from Some suspected plants (maybe a hybrid, mirabilis, or Viking hybrid..) . But..but.. g.b. also is found in N. mirabilis " Kuraburi" (=N. globosa? img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2large9kn.jpg twoton, is this your pic?). When I got my first N."Kuraburi" in Thailand before 1999, I was told name" N. mirabilis ananmensis". And now, if this g.b. is a main point to id Viking, N. kuraburi will be related to Viking. An another form of N. Viking?
Look these pitchers (Viking?), I collected these pitchers from a Nep. grower in Thailand. While I went there last May, he just got some plants from a native plants collector. So, these pitchers should be from the same native land.He grows Nep for many years and can find many forms similar to Viking or hybrid Viking from his nursery. Unfortunately, I didn't check the g.b. , otherwise, maybe find something interesting. I will go to there again in the following months and will check the g.b. of each plant. Pls note these pitchers, some are true Viking? some similar to kuraburi, some between both.
That's a wonderful picture showing the range of color and shape within N.'Viking'. Thanks for posting it, Cassia. Looking at those pitchers, we would guess that they all have the G.B. The pitcher in the upper most right, large, is most unusual with the neck that reminds one of bicalcarata! Very interesting indeed. Do you know more about it?
Dave, you contradtict your own argument: "Well, I would say the bump is not what makes it a species, but how this group of plants are related to other _Nepenthes_ is what is important in defining a species. That bump is a reliable feature you can use the help identify it. "
What group of species do you think Viking is related to? Whatever you happen to think... raff, thorelii, amp, (we think it's in the mirabilis group) whichever, none of the other species that appear related in other taxonomic features display the glandular boss. You yourself, Dave, say that it is used to help identify it. Exactly.
Umm, no. You didn't really get my meaning. Say, _N. globosa_ did not have this bump, would it then in turn be disaqualified from being a species? Of course not. What makes it a species is, you can only get more _N. globosa_ plants by breeding them with each other. You can't (and they cannot either), make more of themselves by interbreeding with other species, even if those other species have bumps in the same place on their lids, the resulting plants will still not be _N. globosa_. By naming it as a species, shows (the author and inturn anyone who uses the name) we recongize (or believe this to be a fact), that _N globosa_ (however it is defined) can only be made from other examples of _N. globosa_. This is in turn shows how it relates to (or we relate it to) other _Nepenthes_ plants. It is it's own species, for example, it doesn't rely on hybridization of other species to continue existing, as _N. trichocarpa_ does. I hope this makes more sense.
Now to me, the important part of science that I think some people find divisive, is once one scientist(s) publishes some work, this work needs to be followed up by other independant workers who double check the first scientist's work/theories. It/they need to be able to stand up to careful scrutiny to continue to be considered valid by everyone else.
_N. globosa_ appears to be a good species. However, I rather doubt it's range could be so restricted that it only grows in one location. If that were true, this would be a strike against it being a species, as this would suggest it could be the result of a hybrid swarm. (which could, in time, give rise to a new species) What other lowland species of _Nepenthes_ have you ever heard of having such a small range? Something just doesn't seem right about that to me. I'm thinking about _N. campanulata_, it's range is much larger than what was originally thought (150 km from), but only one or two locations have been found since the first one was destroyed, but at least you can see that it had been around for a long time and spread quite far without changing much. It would be very nice if the location for this _N. mirabilis_? (kuraburi) were visited and the plants there recorded/samples collected.
Yes, the locations are being kept secret and they may in fact have a larger range. Wouldn't be surprised if stands of it were found scattered throughout the Andaman Sea and along the SW coast - even in the national park. N. "kuraburi" is a total mystery, it's not from Kuraburi region, but intentionally mis-labeled to throw off other collectors.
What group of species do you think Viking is related to? We think it's in the mirabilis group. [/quote]
While I am not as familar with _N. globosa_ as you are, I still don't see much connection with _N. mirabilis_ as it's closest related species... Perhaps its closest related species is quite disjunct from where _N. globosa_ now lives? Unlikely, I think, but possible...
Since it has been reported that it also has tuberous roots, unlike _N. m._, but rather like _N. anamensis/kampotiana_ it seems rather obvious that this species would make a good canidate as the closest relative. No? As for leaf shape, the species I know which has the closest shape in common with _N. globosa_ seems to be _N. veitchii_, though the texture of the tissue and venation are very different so that doesn't seem to mean much at this point. Also, do the tendrils coil? The uppers do in _N. mirabilis_, but not in _N. kampotiana/anamensis_... Also, checkout the tendril placement; in _N. m._ the pitcher grows away from the tendril, in _N. g._ the pitcher faces the tendril, just like _N. anamensis_.
No, it's mirabilis. If you were to cut off the pitchers, you couldn't tell the difference from a typical Thai mirabilis. The thorelii/smilesii/kampotiana group have a distintively different growth habit and leaf shape. All of our "Tigers"- Cambodian thorelii, our smilesii/kampotiana, the reds and even the "giant Tigers" have a similarity. N. globosa ('Viking') simply doesn't fit the type. We have noticed N. mirabilis from Thailand does exhibit a tuber like root system reminescent of Viking, but not as pronounced. We feel N. 'Viking' globosa has evolved from mirabilis as an adaptation to the unique environment found in the bay where these islands are located; it's a big area. Dave Evans said: "As for leaf shape, the species I know which has the closest shape in common with _N. globosa_ seems to be _N. veitchii"
Not at all like veitchii. We have many forms to compare. Again, without the pitchers, this plant would pass as a mirabilis. If it were to be compared to anything we would look at Charles Clarke's recent separation of N. rowanae from N. mirabilis. Obvious relatives, but just enough to be different.
thatoneplantboi: Hey guys, I'm new to growing nepenthes, I'm getting a mini indoor greenhouse to grow them in. What kind of light should I use for them? Also, if you could provide a link to a product, it would be very much appreciated
Oct 5, 2017 10:16:29 GMT 7
borneo: Yes, they work superbly. But you don't need expensive lights, cheap ones work well too.
Sept 2, 2018 14:34:57 GMT 7
mylesg: i havent checked in here for a while, why does it seem all the CP forums have lost their once strong activity? the trade/sale section used to be so active and now its a ghost town. where is everybody hanging out these days for a strong online CP community?
Dec 9, 2018 3:15:01 GMT 7
mylesg: Happy holidays to everyone out there!
Dec 26, 2018 0:23:13 GMT 7
lance: Everyone left the forums and moved to facebook groups.
Oct 2, 2019 12:09:05 GMT 7
mylesg: yes, facebook groups will never have same feel as this place once did
Nov 3, 2019 8:34:22 GMT 7
etiennecancio: perhaps we can try to revitalize the old forums? i always found them to be much more convenient than facebook groups at least hah
Nov 4, 2019 17:01:25 GMT 7
mylesg: i refuse to abandon this place, i am posting in my grow thread with many photos and always there to answer any questions just built new grow room and tons of pitcher shots!
Nov 6, 2019 21:17:59 GMT 7
vidyut: hey mylesg. glad to hear that. Love this forum. Facebook can't organize knowledge like this. Will participate as much as I can.
Nov 25, 2019 5:37:09 GMT 7
vidyut: Photobucket has ruined this place and many other forum archives with years and years of photos worth referencing now blurred. Priceless information hostage to services once free, begging for adoption, arbitrarily monetized.
Nov 25, 2019 16:28:58 GMT 7
bonfield: This forum is almost at 13K total threads, I can't wait to read the topic that pushes it past the mark!
Dec 3, 2019 8:27:58 GMT 7
arvin555: I do not like FB forums because it is difficult to read back Archives. Let us keep this forum alive!
Dec 9, 2019 11:14:09 GMT 7
mylesg: just posted ton of new pics in my thread!
Feb 9, 2020 3:40:25 GMT 7
bonfield: If you think the situation on this forum is bad, you should see what that those creeps Justin Dunning and Kurtis Herperger(Victoria Butterfly Gardens), Willy Chung, and Lloyd Gordon did to the Canadian forums: www.butterflygardens.ca
Jun 1, 2021 7:14:40 GMT 7