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Post by Dave Evans on May 3, 2012 8:12:39 GMT 7
This really is very cool.
Who thought they would ever raise this plant, super rare natural hybrid, from seed?
I believe they only found a couple of plants of it in nature. And only one that made it to adult size! Not even enough material for more than one cutting. I.e. one of the rarest plants of all time and it is also beautiful.
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Post by helilover on May 3, 2012 8:16:33 GMT 7
There is some also ideas that it is infact a N. inermis x pectinata because it is found in the same location where the seed was collected from.
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Post by helilover on May 3, 2012 8:52:28 GMT 7
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Post by paulbarden on May 3, 2012 10:18:00 GMT 7
This really is very cool. Who thought they would ever raise this plant, super rare natural hybrid, from seed? I believe they only found a couple of plants of it in nature. And only one that made it to adult size! Not even enough material for more than one cutting. I.e. one of the rarest plants of all time and it is also beautiful. I think this will be a very exciting prospect if we do in fact have plants of N. pyriformis in our collections. One thing that has crept into my thinking is: what if these seeds were erroneously collected not from N. inermis, but some other female? We can't know for sure, given the nature of their collection from the wild. It is possible, is it not? |
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Post by milossula on May 3, 2012 13:18:42 GMT 7
Hi, i have got some N. x Pyriformis seeds before a few years. Plants are still young:  |
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Post by paulbarden on May 3, 2012 21:14:06 GMT 7
Hi, i have got some N. x Pyriformis seeds before a few years. Plants are still young: Did you make the cross yourself? More information, please! |
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Post by helilover on May 4, 2012 4:47:20 GMT 7
The pitcher just opened:   |
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Post by Dave Evans on May 4, 2012 5:35:24 GMT 7
I think this will be a very exciting prospect if we do in fact have plants of N. pyriformis in our collections. One thing that has crept into my thinking is: what if these seeds were erroneously collected not from N. inermis, but some other female? We can't know for sure, given the nature of their collection from the wild. It is possible, is it not? Well, that is just smart thinking. It sure is possible... But I also think who ever collected seed probably was able to ID the mother plant, it is just the father(s) they couldn't ID. Just note as being nearby... |
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Post by milossula on May 4, 2012 12:56:02 GMT 7
Did you make the cross yourself? More information, please! No they are from Mt.Talang ( Ricardo - eBay ) |
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Post by paulbarden on May 4, 2012 21:11:46 GMT 7
Did you make the cross yourself? More information, please! No they are from Mt.Talang ( Ricardo - eBay ) Did you know these seeds were hybrids when you got them? Or were you expecting them to be pure N. inermis? |
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Post by philg on May 5, 2012 0:02:45 GMT 7
I'll see if I can find some pic's of my pyriformis when it was still small (that's mine in the photofinder link). But from memory I think yours is different (but don't quote me till I check the pic's. There are more pics of it in februarys Pitcher OTM pitcherplants.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10782 No they are from Mt.Talang ( Ricardo - eBay ) Did you know these seeds were hybrids when you got them? Or were you expecting them to be pure N. inermis? They were sold as pyriformis - meaning the mother was 'supposed to be' pyriformis, but the father could be anything. They are not a straight talang X inermis (or vise versa). |
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Post by milossula on May 5, 2012 1:14:33 GMT 7
I'll see if I can find some pic's of my pyriformis when it was still small This will be great. Mine seedlings are glabrous with thick leaves. But i think there are big variations between N. x 'Pyriformis'. I have one philosophic question. As we know N. x 'Pyriformis' are natural hybrids beween N.inermis and N.talangensis ( it does not matter if female was inermis or talangensis ). But what about for example natural hybrid N. x 'Pyriformis' x N.inermis ? I think it should be called still as N. x 'Pyriformis' right ? So N. x 'Pyriformis' should be considered as GROUP of naturally hybridized N.inermis and N.talangensis plants, not only as N.inermis and N.talangensis hybrid with 50/50 genetic ratio. I am sorry for my bad english... |
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Post by philg on May 5, 2012 2:32:09 GMT 7
But what about for example natural hybrid N. x 'Pyriformis' x N.inermis ? I think it should be called still as N. x 'Pyriformis' right ? . I believe this is correct, but Dave or other can confirm. However, a pyriformis x inermis will look more like inermis, whilst pyriformis x talangensis will look more like talangensis. So the parantage does affect how it will look. |
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Post by Dave Evans on May 5, 2012 3:31:22 GMT 7
Right Phil,
Natural hybrids are a kind of species, which can only be made from crossing the parent species, crossing amongst themselves, back-crossing with parent species or asexual reproduction.
Now while members of a hybrids are all the same species, various ways the plants are crossed will result in different variations and forms as well as exceptional individuals which get selected as clone only cultivars. So there are still plenty of ways to officially recognize the variation in a given hybrid.
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Post by paulbarden on May 5, 2012 3:33:28 GMT 7
As we know N. x 'Pyriformis' are natural hybrids beween N.inermis and N.talangensis But what about for example natural hybrid N. x 'Pyriformis' x N.inermis ? I think it should be called still as N. x 'Pyriformis' right ? So N. x 'Pyriformis' should be considered as GROUP of naturally hybridized N.inermis and N.talangensis plants, not only as N.inermis and N.talangensis hybrid with 50/50 genetic ratio. In effect, I'm going to answer this question with a question, using a man-made hybrid as an example: N. ventricosa X N. bongso = the hybrid grex N Bong.. Now take N Bong. and cross it back onto N. bongso. . Now brace yourself, here comes the question: What do you have now? More N Bong.? Or ? So in case 1 you have (N. inermis X talangensis) X N. inermis, created in a natural environment, with (presumably) insects acting as the pollinator. In case 2 we have (N. ventricosa x bongso) X N. bongso, created by the hand (and will) of man. In the artificial environment of the breeder's stable, the second scenario raises no questions whatsoever about the resulting plants. However, in the first scenario proposed, in two species natural environment, the question has been raised: "What is this plant called?"I am offering these statements in order to prompt further discussion, not provide an answer; my answer might not be your answer, nor the answer the Nepenthes registrar, or a taxonomist might give you. |
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