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Post by philg on Jun 8, 2012 5:06:32 GMT 7
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Post by paulbarden on Jun 8, 2012 5:12:56 GMT 7
Remarkable, Phil!
Something I am noticing when people post new photos of their specimens: how very similar these all look. I mean, virtually indistinguishable from one another. It kinda suggests there is no hybrid aspect to these plants, doesn't it?
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Post by mikefallen13 on Jun 8, 2012 5:31:01 GMT 7
AMAZING! I cant believe how big some of these have gotten already!
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Post by william9in on Jun 8, 2012 8:16:06 GMT 7
That is cool!!! My N.QxK  |
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Post by Dave Evans on Jun 9, 2012 3:13:20 GMT 7
Remarkable, Phil! Something I am noticing when people post new photos of their specimens: how very similar these all look. I mean, virtually indistinguishable from one another. It kinda suggests there is no hybrid aspect to these plants, doesn't it? It depends on the numbers of generations in. A species derived from a hybrid isn't quite the same thing as the first couple of generations of a more lucky hybrid. But yeah, if N. robcantleyi were only two or three hybrid generations it would be all over the place between the two parent species. I'm not seeing that, is anyone? The third generation looks rather like the first generation of wild plant(s). Even if it the mother was a hybrid, why don't some of the progeny have more N. truncata characters? Because it was backcrossed to the "other species"? Yet the royals look very similar to the mother. Doesn't really add up... |
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Post by ep on Jun 9, 2012 7:16:01 GMT 7
Hi All,
Dave Evans: It's obvious we are on different 'wave lengths' and as I said you misunderstand most of what I write.
What I meant is that you just recently received two black truncatas yet you have been commenting on this thread previously without having plants to look at! What did you base your comments on?
Also please post pics of your truncatas with the rounded peristome ribs as I have not ever seen one and I would like to know what Cheek has based his paper on.
On this topic, what did you do with your many thousands of truncatas you grew out and can you post pics of your parents?
Obviously Dave you have not read the Macfarlane description on which Jebb and Cheek's 2001 revision is based on! Macfarlane's description is 2 pages long plus another page of notes.
Enough, I would say, to see the variation in the progeny, which you don't see in primary species hybrids.
When N.hurrelliana was first collected by Rob Cantley it was tentatively N.veitchii - Mt.Paganprick which I assume was due to it's similarity with N.veitchii. I grew a couple of plants which he sold and yes they were very similar to both N.veitchii and N.fusca so I am not sure what you base your statement on. Do you have plants of N.hurrelliana?
Regarding the growth rate and the hybrid parentage of N.robcantleyi, I think that most are under the impression that I am talking primary hybrids.
What is evident from what Rob Cantley has already said is that the original plants have an unknown male parent and also no one knows what made up(parents) the one off said female. Now we have not done many N.truncata hybrids where we have crossed them back with N.truncata until recently but what is evident so far is the slow growth of them compared to our typical and even red N.truncata seedlings and hybrids using the truncata parent only once. N.truncata x (truncata x densiflora) are very slow.
Dave, this is another thing I and others are talking about. How can you state above in an answer to Predator08's question? We would even be reluctant to make that broad statement, 'No, not really.', and we have been hyridizing Nepenthes for 20+ years. You have nowhere near that experience! What Nepenthes hybridization or breeding have you even done?
Thanks.
Geoff
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Post by paulbarden on Jun 9, 2012 7:19:17 GMT 7
Ouch!
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Post by Dave Evans on Jun 9, 2012 9:43:17 GMT 7
On this topic, what did you do with your many thousands of truncatas you grew out and can you post pics of your parents? Sold them. I find N. truncata to be a rather boring species. I have studied some adult plants though, and they are impressive in their size. I'm thinking maybe some sort of dye or stain might be useful for tracing the veins...? To make them more apparent. |
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Post by Dave Evans on Jun 9, 2012 9:56:03 GMT 7
Dave, this is another thing I and others are talking about. How can you state above in an answer to Predator08's question? We would even be reluctant to make that broad statement, 'No, not really.', and we have been hyridizing Nepenthes for 20+ years. You have nowhere near that experience! What Nepenthes hybridization or breeding have you even done? Thanks.Geoff Got to say, I'm not following what you're saying. I haven't bred enough crosses with N. albomarginata to know whether it dominates its hybrids? What? I have to bred them, not grow them to know? So Geoff, what species doesn't contribute much to it's hybrids? After all, that was his question. I haven't seen one, have you? And as to the reason we can't say for sure, is because new species are still being discovered. All I have seen is certain species which tend to dominate. Not species which disappear into the hybrids. |
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Post by ep on Jun 9, 2012 10:53:54 GMT 7
Hi All,
Hmm! I am impressed Dave. You bred many thousands of truncatas and sold them. Would you mind posting a pic of your nursery facilities? Just an overall one, not a close up, I just want to see the size to see where you grew these truncatas out. You must have been keeping it quiet.
So you are saying that your parent truncatas had ribs with a circular section on their peristome from your memory, as you don't have a truncata in your nursery. You know I have looked and haven't found a Nepenthes species with ribs like that. I assume jacquelineae, platychila gracilis etc. may have but haven't looked closely at them.
Dave it may be as simple as you are not reading things properly or not qualifying your statements but you have answered Predator08 who said 'Are there any species....' by saying No, not really. People who are new to the forum and don't know that you are just speculating can go away with a lot of false info and pass it on with things like this. Perhaps I take the info on this forum a bit more seriously than you.
I never said anything about albo-marginata.
As I said, I would be reluctant to make a statement like that even after 20 years of breeding Nepenthes because it is really just the tip of the iceberg we are seeing.
Yes, I would say it is better to breed the plants as you can be sure of the parents and examine a whole grex.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by Dave Evans on Jun 9, 2012 12:28:11 GMT 7
I'm not sure why, but I keep seeing silly quotes, like "bats can eat 3,000 mosquitoes in a single night." Except bats tend to eat things like moths. I really doubt someone is going mangle what I've say bad enough to make a statement as out of whack like that. No, I didn't bred thousands of N. truncata, I grew them out for several years. TC plants from a variety of sources. Never once did I see such a nice looking N. truncata until I saw yours. I hope that's clear enough  |
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Post by philg on Jun 9, 2012 14:50:25 GMT 7
What I meant is that you just recently received two black truncatas yet you have been commenting on this thread previously without having plants to look at! What did you base your comments on?Geoff But Geoff, isn't this what you have been doing ? How many RC's and of what size do YOU have, to be basing all your comments on ? |
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Post by ep on Jun 10, 2012 9:54:18 GMT 7
Hi All. philg: No, my comments are not rash or unqualified and I don't think any of my comments talk about the recent RC progeny except to compliment you on your plant. You know the reasons I posted on this thread. I think the reason Dave annoys others is because he comes accross as a know all but he has very little experience. He posts his comments like he is speaking from experience yet he is just reciting things he has read and yet does not bother to qualify them by stating that they are his opinion or According to such and such etc. It might be as simple as that. I know this is how he comes accross to me and that is why I ask him about his credentials, job etc. Yes, we have two small RC's and have had them since early February and as I have said already my comments have not been about progeny. BTW. I also got this pic recently of a plant BE had on display in 2004. IMO, from the pic, it looks like and intermediate between RC and Pasian truncata. Interesting that there was no further mention of it.  regards, Geoff |
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Post by greyes on Jul 30, 2012 4:01:00 GMT 7
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Post by william9in on Jul 30, 2012 4:15:29 GMT 7
That is a big one! How long have you grown it?
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